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Feb
20

Fair Questions for the “Fair” Tax Folks

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By now, most of you know that I am against adoption of the “Fair” Tax in Missouri. Well, “against” is too strong a word. Let’s just say that I’m highly skeptical of the proposal as it currently stands, although, with changes, this might be a workable idea.

While some folks might wish to support the current plan on philosophical grounds, anyone who does so and holds or runs for elected office in the State of Missouri needs to be able to defend the specifics of the current proposal (as defined in SJR 29), or at least offer solutions/alternatives/separate legislative proposals that address areas of SJR 29 that appear to be unclear. This is, at the very least, what candidates and current office holders owe to Missouri taxpayers.

As you have probably heard, Morningline will host a “Fair Tax” debate on March 12 from 7-9 between State Representative Ed Emery, who is a strong supporter of the tax plan, and Amy Blouin (from the St. Louis-based Missouri Budget Project), who has expressed skepticism that the tax figures offered by Emery and other proponents are accurate. March 12 will be a great opportunity to try and get to the bottom of questions about the “Fair” Tax proposal.

However, with the full senate slated to begin consideration of the “Fair” Tax proposal later this session, the time is now to formulate questions to pose to those who would have our state tax system turned upside down—perhaps for the better, but perhaps not. My crystal ball isn’t very accurate most of the time. I think if “Fair” Tax proponents are truly honest about it, they’d admit the same for theirs.

Feel free to chime in with questions of your own—either via posts to this blog, which we will try to ask during the March 12 th show, or by calling us during the show when we’re talking about the “Fair” Tax.

For now, here are some questions that I’d like to have answered, and that SJR 29 does not address in any meaningful way.

1)        Where will the money come from to pay for the first several monthly “prebates”, which, given the size of the state’s population, will cost tens of millions of dollars   PER MONTH out of a FY 2012 state budget already projected to be $1.5 billion in the red?  Is the state somehow supposed to borrow this money when it is going to have to ax over $1 billion from an $8 billion general fund for FY 2012?    

 

2)       Rep. Emery and John Putnam spent an hour with me on the air in January assuring all of us listening that the proposed 5.11% tax rate was the product of expert calculation designed to ensure “revenue neutrality” once state income taxes are discontinued. My response to them was, “how can you be so sure that 5.11% is the right rate to get the job done?” We all found out a week later—they can’t be! Now, the “Fair” Tax folks are admitting that the tax rate may need to be as high as 6.2%. I’m not upset that Emery and Company were wrong. I’m upset that they could be so smug and naive as to believe that statistical projections (which are wrong all the time—look at what the economists put out) can be trusted as though they’re Holy Scripture. This leads me to my second question— “How can you be so sure that 6.2% is the right rate to get the job done?”

 

3)       So as not to steal everyone’s thunder who may wish to propose a question or two on the issue through this blog or during the show, I’ll ask only one more question, for now: under the “Fair” Tax system, where all services become subject to whatever the state tax rate ends up being, can anyone tell me who is going to provide assistance to all the ten-year-old paperboys, twelve-year-old babysitters, and fourteen-year-old neighborhood lawn cutters who will have to obtain a tax ID number from the state? As a follow-up, does anyone know if there’s a minimum age on being able to operate the credit card swipers these kids will probably need to start using for customer transactions?   

 
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Comments
The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 1025) is nonpartisan legislation, and is so simple that it is only about 133 pages long. (The current tax code is roughly 70,000 pages long and long enough to beat in tax court.)
What it does:
Abolishes the IRS (Morphs into the Treasury Department.)
Abolishes all federal personal income taxes (Unconstitutional to begin with.)
Abolishes all federal corporate income taxes (Profits should be taxed.)
Abolishes all federal business income taxes (Profits should be taxed..)
Abolishes all gift taxes (Unconstitutional to begin with.)
Abolishes all estate taxes (Unconstitutional to begin with.)
Abolishes all capital gains taxes (Profits should be taxed but not double taxed..)
Abolishes all alternative minimum taxes (Unconstitutional to begin with.)
Abolishes all Social Security taxes (Unconstitutional to begin with.)
Abolishes all self-employment taxes (Unconstitutional to begin with.)
Through companion legislation, repeals the 16th Amendment. (When has any amendment ever been repealed?)
What it includes:
A progressive national retail sales tax on *NEW* goods and services (administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities) (Progressive means communist. National retail sales tax means circumventing the 10th amendment.
Taxing services is the same as taxing labor which is unconstitutional.)
a monthly PRE-bate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level (Who keeps track of your income to know if you are spending to the poverty level?)
Benefits of the FairTax:
No more IRS (Not really, it morphs into the treasury department.)
No more fear of audits (The treasury department will gladly audit you!)
No more fear of IRS agents coming to your door carrying weapons to cart you off if you underpay your taxes (No the treasury department will.)
FOR CHURCHES: Can no longer lose "tax exempt" status for mentioning political issues in the pulpit, since "corporate entities" no longer pay taxes (Political issues will be deemed Hate Crimes and churches will pay tax on everything they spend. Remember no loop holes.)
Everyone keeps almost their entire paycheck (HR 25 does not affect state and local income taxes) (But is taxed every time you spend money.)
Retirees keep their entire pensions (But are taxed on anything they spend it on including medical bills.)
EVERYONE now pays taxes (no more loop-holes).(The biggest loop hole is that corporations pay no taxes and can unlimitedly fund politicians turning us into a fascist state.)
Gives an Advance Refund of the amount of the tax people would pay on purchases of basic necessities. (How do they do that without keeping track of your income? Who determines “basic necessities”? Is an automobile a “basic necessities” a house, clothing? )
Gives companies an incentive to keep jobs here in America, rather than shipping jobs oversees (Incentives do not mean jobs. Corporations outsourced jobs without any regard or allegiance to the American people and through this fairtax and unlimited funding of politicians we turn into a fascist state.)
Gives companies an incentive to keep their money in banks here in America, rather than putting money overseas in offshore banks. (They will keep money in what currency is the strongest maybe like gold backed currencies.)
Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy (This is a LIE, when you have FIAT money that is printed from thin air you have no transparency or accountability. When government want something they will print money for it like TARP even against the will of the people.)
Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation.(Gives a giant loop hole corporations who WILL own politicians though unlimited funding and dis-empowers the citizens.)
The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn.(Like medical bills, cars, houses, clothing and food. Like we have a choice on these items.)
The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system . (Fair tax is just another scheme that dis-empowers the average citizen, gives more power to corporations, politicians and bureaucrats.)
REAL SOLUTION: Go back to the Constitution. Go back to the original intent our the founding fathers. Go back to constitutional money that government can't counterfeited. Talley sticks will work. Fairtax give centralized taxing power to the federal government doesn't address the issue of FIAT money. Gives more power to corporations, politicians and bureaucrats and dis-empowers the sovereign citizen. FAIRTAX is simply another tax scheme. The best 1st step is to AUDIT THE FED. “Fairtax” is just another step toward a total fascist one world government.


Posted by : Nick from Nixa - Saturday, March 06, 2010
The "Fair Tax" is a bad and impractical idea. Since the material provided deals mostly
with a national tax, it is a little difficult to discuss here basing my concerns with the tax on the information provided.
1. Fair is a very subjective term, there is no unique characteristic of this tax that justifies it as being "fair. It is simply a very broad-based sales tax.
2. Since this is a state proposal,we continue to have the federal
income tax and IRS. To me, there is nothing difficult about doing the federal or Missouri income tax unless one has complex deductions, credits, of sources of income. The great majority of Missourians have simple returns, if one has difficulty MSU accounting students, senior services, and 800 phone lines ar available.
3. Clearly this is a regressive tax proposal hurting the lower income families and individuals. The "prebate" if it is made, would require documented income information, but from where? The "prebate" implicitly assumes some IRS tax
return information or unknown policing sources.
4. Some 67,000 pages of tax code? Scary isn't it? But, most of us need and use 3 to 7 pages. Warren Buffet uses a tiny proportion, or, his tax lawyers do.
5. The tax would be very easy to evade for all except quite large businesses. Right now mant buy goods from smaller businesses, and, the incentive to evade becomes greater with this tax.
6. Costs of good would fall by 15 to 25%? This is a dream. Prices in the U.S. are very sticky downward except for commodity or very active markets.
Posted by : Allan - Tuesday, March 02, 2010
Your third question regarding minors is an interesting one. Would they be required to obtain tax ID numbers? And further, most of these kids who do odd jobs for pocket money aren't currently being taxed, and most likely wouldn't qualify for the prebates (just like illegal immigrants without social security numbers, or others currently working "under the table"). The "Fair" tax proponents see this as a strong selling point--that those who don't currently pay into the system (shamelessly shirking their duty as residents of Missouri and America!) will be forced to pay taxes on the things they consume. Meanwhile, as their not eligible for and prebates, they're paying far more taxes than the rest of us. This may sound like justice to the more unsavory elements who have thus far evaded taxes, but is it fair to Johnny the paperboy, or Sally the babysitter? Hardly.
Posted by : Michelle - Saturday, February 20, 2010
I agree with your views on this subject. Although I do not know all of the details of the Consumption Tax Proposal, I believe that the unknowns about it are enough to make it a bad idea. I do not see any evidence that this proposal will work the way that the proponents are saying. Personally, I like to either have valid and reliable data backing me up or, at least, I like to test the water before I get in.
Posted by : Grace Sitton - Wednesday, February 03, 2010
I appreciate your point regarding the need for a more honest and open discussion about the tax rate, and maybe even what it would mean for the state if the proposed tax rate doesn't accomplish the goal of revenue-neutrality. Having said that, I tend to think the entire proposal is pretty insane, particularly since Missouri would be the only state with the tax, meaning anything coming from outside the state would still have those "terrible" imbedded taxes, and would still be passed along to consumers inside the state. Missouri is not in a vacuum, and we can't afford to pretend that it is.
Posted by : Michelle - Monday, February 01, 2010
Brian, Thank you for an exceptional analysis. We all desire our elected representatives, local state and fed. to be fiscally responsible. The unintended consequence of this bold move, with failure to analyze specific aspects, has the potentional to devastate what our (majority) conservative, balanced budget mandated, officials have achieved in this state. Your Jim Viebrock interview on Fri. was an example. I hope you have the opportunity to interview the chair of the budget committee.
Keep up the good work.
Posted by : Sara Ray - Sunday, January 31, 2010
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